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Forum:2010-01-20 (Wednesday)
Discussion for comic for . [http://girlgeniuscomic.livejournal.com/94185.html Where is your queen, little rats?] --Otilia Top web comic? Please Vote for Girl Genius. ---- A muse?!? Intriguing. Nik D 05:38, January 20, 2010 (UTC) :Maybe Clio --Rej ¤¤? 23:25, January 20, 2010 (UTC) :Looks like the one in the very back: http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20050928 Clearly the worse for wear. AmariT 05:53, January 20, 2010 (UTC) ::The pink sheen on the face was my tip off—comparing the sigil on the chest with the other two that we know of confirmed it. I’ll bet she won’t look much better on finding out about Lunevka… Nik D 05:59, January 20, 2010 (UTC) So, looking at the got me thinking about which muse we're looking at by process of elimination. Tinka (Terpsichore) and Moxana (Calliope) are both at the far right--Tinka with her leg kicked up in a half-Arabesque, and Moxana for some reason in what looks like a giant teacup. Melpomene (tragedy) and Thalia (comedy) would appear to be the two muses at the center, as they mirror the classic comedy and tragedy mask formation. Urania (Astronomy) would appear to be on her knees holding a complex series of gyroscopes at left, and Clio (history) appears to be the one holding the book behind her. This leaves three unidentified muses in the photo: the one-woman band at far left, the one holding the protractor at the right, and the winged one at the back. The three names not yet attributed are Erato (love or erotic poetry, lyrics, marriage songs, and in some depictions, mimicry), Euterpe (music and lyric poetry), and Polyhymnia (sacred song, oratory, lyric, singing, rhetoric, and in some depictions, geometry). Euterpe is commonly depicted as carrying a flute and said to be the inventor of the double flute, so if I had to nail her down I'd guess that the far left one-woman band of wind instruments is Euterpe; and given that Polyhymnia is occasionally the muse of geometry, I'd guess that she's the one with the protractor. Leaving our winged muse as (possibly) Erato, as she was associated with Eros, i.e. Cupid, who was commonly depicted as winged. Also, two guesses. 1) The Winged Muse climbing out of the pit may be the same clank last seen grabbing Vrin by the . 2) Maybe Lucrezia's 'fee' for helping orchestrate the heir of the Storm King was access to the Muses? -MsFeasance 16:37, January 20, 2010 (UTC) :im sorry when did a clank grab vrin by the neck ?, i dont recall that. Agathahetrodyne 16:48, January 20, 2010 (UTC) ::It's at the bottom center of the previously linked page: you only see the arm, in flashback, but it's clearly a mechanical arm.--MsFeasance 17:00, January 20, 2010 (UTC) ::: hmm, might as well be a gauntlet. also, she mentions the mistress coming back in that panel,so i think that's lucrezia grabbing her Finn MacCool 00:15, January 21, 2010 (UTC) OK, so we know a few things: * Castle Heterodyne was attacked by something looking to take down Lucrezia * Lucrezia got away, probably to the world of the Geisterdamen * Lucrezia (the nowadays evil version) is deathly afraid of returning to the Castle * The angel muse claws its way out of Agatha's pit, looking to take down Lucrezia So, the angel muse is probably possibly the "something" that attacked the Castle all those years ago. Somehow, the Castle (or Lucrezia) trapped it in the bowels of the Castle, kept there by the Castle's (subconscious?) influence. When that , the angel muse was free to resume its wetwork. Only a few burning questions: * WHY did the angel muse attack Lucrezia? * HOW did the Castle keep the angel muse in check all those years? * WHO can be behind the angel muse's attack? Some leftover Van Rijn and/or Storm King programming, ala Von Pinn? * WHEN will Our Heroes (and with Tarvek, I use that term loosely!) get cured? * WHAT is the name of the angel muse (because typing "angel muse" all the time is boring)? Oh, and don't forget...we still need to figure out just what it is about Gil that lets him , survive near-killing by an , surprise with his healing ability, and via the Si Vales Valeo. CaptMorgan 16:51, January 20, 2010 (UTC) im fairly sure this muse isnt from the original muses from myth , as they needed a flying muse they just created one. Agathahetrodyne 17:30, January 20, 2010 (UTC) # I agree -- up to a point. ##Some of the muses are clearly very similar (though their names don't seem to bear much resemblance to the Greek muses). Tinka is obviously the Muse of Dance. Moreover, it seems clear that we have a Urania-like Muse of Astronomy, and Melopmene- and Thalia-like Muses of Tragedy and Comedy. ## But Moxana? My best guess with her is that she's a Muse of Augury or Prophecy or Divination or something. Or, perhaps, a more mathematical muse -- like the Muse of Geometry seen behind her. In short, the world of Girl Genius is less about the arts and more about Science! So probably their muses are different. ## But there isn't going to be just a Muse of Flying, I'd've thought. She'll be muse of SOMETHING or other. And by the look of that scabbard, it's either going to be something martial or else we're talking about a muse who didn't hide in barns but took defending her own existence into her own hands. # So who is the Angel (for lack of a better name)? ## She could well be involved with the events of That Night. Perhaps she was being used by Lucrezia somehow for her nefarious deeds and all of Lucrezia's assistants were killed by the Angel (or perhaps by Lucrezia/her Geisterdamen). Or maybe Milvistle met the Angel and decided that she was a much holier Lady than Lucrezia. In any event, the Angel ended up imprisoned deep underneath the Castle, a place to which Lucrezia had access because there are Geistertunnels that run beneath Castle Heterodyne. This also explains how Lucrezia disappears from the Castle. ## Or perhaps she is something different altogether: perhaps she fell into the clutches, not of Lucrezia, but of Faustus Heterodyne about two hundred years ago. That is when the Muses were created, after all, though it's less clear at which point they go missing. But let's say the attack on Castle Heterodyne happened in . Then about two hundred years before that would be something like... oh, I don't know... , when a major change came to Castle Heterodyne. So perhaps that is when Faustus Heterodyne brought the castle to life, and he did so by enslaving a Van Rijn clank --- a muse at that! --- to the workings of the Castle. So for two hundred years, the Angel has been the mind of the Castle. # So, if the Angel is (say) the Muse of Battle or Tactics or Summat and she has been the enslaved consciousness of Castle Heterodyne for two hundred years, then maybe . # Or, it's something completely different. --Cantabrian 18:20, January 20, 2010 (UTC) :I'm amending my probably above to possibly since I like the theory where Faustus has abducted a Von Rijn muse to serve as the "heart" of the Castle. The angel does refer to "my cellar" after all. Added bonus: it could mean Faustus is a close (father? son? brother?) relative of Euphrosynia Heterodyne since the times are close. CaptMorgan 21:24, January 20, 2010 (UTC) I think MsFeance's assessment of the muses sounds accurate. They all seem to fit into their assigned roles, though I also agree that the muses in a society that places higher value on science would have muses that better fit their philosophy. Regardless of what Angel is the muse of, I doubt she's the muse of battle or anything similar to that. If you look at her in the original mural, she doesn't look at all violent or in any way ready to fight. More likely, she picked up fighting skills along the way to defend herself. (Which, actually, fits well with Erato as the muse of mimicry.) AmariT 18:46, January 20, 2010 (UTC) A note on the potential warlike tendencies of our new muse friend, am I the only one to notice the HUGE scabbard on her back? Looks like she used to carry a final fantasy style sword... And there is a chain around her left ankle. I subscribe to theories on her enslavement in the castle (for study or as a fundamental element of the castle) by a heterodyne "Atre" 19:30, January 20, 2010 (UTC)Category:Page-by-Page : Also a chain around her right wrist. Argadi 20:12, January 20, 2010 (UTC) : Well something once held . abb3w point this out on lj --Rej ¤¤? 23:25, January 20, 2010 (UTC) :: Alternate reading. *''Adjusts mad goggles''*. If the thing in her right hand is an unstrung bow then maybe the scabbard is meant to hold arrows? --Rej 04:01, January 21, 2010 (UTC) Above, CaptMorgan wrote that we knew: "Castle Heterodyne was attacked by something looking to take down Lucrezia" :: Hmmm. Then the other war broke out. On the night of the disaster where were the wasp engines? How did they attack all of Europe but made no revenants from the townfolk of Mechanicsburg? --Rej 04:01, January 21, 2010 (UTC) : Actually, we don't know that. We know that something did a lot of damage to the castle, Lucrezia disappeared, and lots of people were killed, including young Barry. Everyone in town calls it an attack, and it probably was, but not in the way most people seem to assume. It could have been done by Lucrezia to allow her to slip away and begin The Other's attacks unsuspected (this fits with her notes being burned). : : It could also have been caused by Lucrezia mucking about with something sensitive in the castle and The Castle reacting in such a way that its reaction and Lucrezia's defenses, or even simply the result of the Castle channelling to much power into a sensitive area and... boom. : I also wondered (over on LiveJournal) if the muse was part of the Castle (power, control or, as I suspect too, its intelligence. Hey, "Lesser artists borrow; great artists steal." Picasso). And how Faustus got it in the job; force, or talk it into it? If it knew the prophesy, then this would be the ideal place to await the return of the Storm King and the uniting of Europa. Either way, Agatha freed it, either by doing some steps required by prophesy or by simply shutting own the rest of the castle. :: I strongly doubt that this muse was imprisoned by Faustus himself. I was under the impression that Faustus lived long before the muses were created. However... and here´s another mad speculation... what if this muse, whose domain is heroic poetry after all, is behind the Heterodyne Boys becoming heroes instead of the usual Heterodyne psychopaths? What she put into them the idea that there could be more to life than plunder and pillage, that they could be part of something bigger than themselves, bigger than the Heterodyne rule of terror? This could explain the muse´s boundless hatred for Lucrezia, since it was presumably Lucrezia who ended the era of Heterodyne heroics by attacking the Castle; of course, if it was The Other who attacked the Castle, either The Other was Lucrezia even back then, or it wasn´t but the muse thinks it was, or it wasn´t, the muse doesn´t think so, but knows that Lucrezia is The Other now. -Sir Chaos 21:50, January 21, 2010 (UTC) I am in the camp that holds that this muse is the GG world equivalent of Calliope, who is also known as the muse of epic or heroic poetry... and the muses were made to inspire. For a muse to inspire others to be heroic... (That school of thought has Moxana being Polyhymnia, who is often show with one arm on a pillar, and/or holding a finger to her mouth and as the muse of pantomime. Whatever, I like her already. :I fear that Mademoiselle Heterodyne must be brought back, and tout-de-suite lest this newly unearthed thing do her in. I hasten to add that I am indeed amused at the idée that she is one of the muses captured by Faustus Heterodyne to animate the castle, and that it could be that her response to an attack by Lucrezia was construed as an attack at the town, but was en fait her attempt at killing the cancer living in her very heart. Chapeau to les Proffesseurs Foglio! Dr. Cayne Armand 23:45, January 20, 2010 (UTC) Good thing that the ‘Storm King’ was the first cured on the last page… It may be the best way to resolve this new problem. Nik D 05:52, January 21, 2010 (UTC) Connecting this winged being with the muse of epic & heroic poetry is intriguing. On that panel showing all the muses she looks like the chief one, not just one of nine. And is there a connection with the "ancient battle goddess" of the Dyne? That would be a good description of a Valkyrie-like being which also fits the appearance. Finally, the scabbard/quiver. It looks empty now, and I don't think the staff looks much like a bow (it's too irregular). Matbe there will be a big sword as a "quest object". Whatever, I hope for major revelations from this new figure. :-) Brrokk Brrokk 08:57, January 21, 2010 (UTC) Oh, and what Agatha said when examining Moxana: "... a Van Rijn. My old master used to talk about them endlessly...". Did she mean Dr Beetle? If so, what was his interest in them? Brrokk 09:14, January 21, 2010 (UTC) While I highly doubt that Klaus has done any work on the Winged Muse, the gold and white construction reminds me of Klaus' personal trainer.Synalon Etuul 17:38, January 21, 2010 (UTC)